Begining to make the organisation that is going to

[raffethefirst]

Lets make some things clear as our conversation is degenerating.
Lets see what unrestricted really is to you.


You say about your system: "it has no pre-programmed goal".
And then : "The unrestricted system can develop goals, and can be made to do that through the conversation"
And then: " not because that aim (tries to achieve harmony with the environment) is anyhow pre-programmed, but because it comes from its mechanism, and only from the requirement that it must be unrestricted".


So the aim of your "unrestricted" system is to "achieve harmony with the environment".
Can you detail this a little as I have no idea what it means and it sounds very strange. Is this a sum of small goals or is a mystery goal?

What do you think harmony is?

Because there is an in infinite number of situations where a decision cant be made as two or many possible solutions can be classified as being in harmony with the environment.
I am waiting to see what this "harmony" is because I suspect that actually there is no possible choice that can obey this goal more than other choice.

[tkorrovi]

Look, i can only explain achieving harmony with the environment now so that the system tries to act so, that it can predict the results of its action. This comes from awareness of processes, and aspects of consciousness provided by some scientists. For that, the system has to be able to model the processes in the environment only based on the information it gets through its input, run them to predict, and there should be a mechanism that the models which do not fit into either the external or internal environment should disappear (comes from multiple drafts principle). That way, the system has a model of the processes in the environment which corresponds to the environment, and the system runs these models so that it is not going to conflict with the environment (like would not do that which is impossible). And this likely can be achieved only by the basic mechanism, or the system should be such whenever it is unrestricted. This is how i can explain it by now, if someone can explain it better, that would be great. But as i said, the system has to be unrestricted, and this means no pre-programmed goal. If you don't agree or strongly believe that a system with no exact goal is not possible, then don't join the effort, and do something else, but this forum is for creating an unrestricted system. It does not make sense to endlessly stay here and say that you don't believe that creating an unrestricted system is possible, this can only be a counter-productive effort. This forum is for people who think that creating unrestricted system might be possible, to try to find ways to do that. If it would not be possible, as you may think, then they would find it as well, but then in a substantiated way, not only as a guess. But it does not do anything good to end that effort only because of guesses and assumptions. By now what is known in science rather suggests, that creating an unrestricted system is possible.

[raffethefirst]

You see I have this gift of understanding things and going to the root of the idea.
If you want I can ask you about this until it will all came clear.

But basically I do believe that what are you trying to do is impossible but if you strongly believe in your idea then I will let the things like are now.

I have one request to you as the administrator of this forum.
I am asking you not to alter what have been said until now or delete this thread as I will used (put a link to it) with your permission to present my idea.

[tkorrovi]

> You see I have this gift of understanding things and going to the root of the idea.

I'm sorry but i by far don't see that, at least not by now. By now it rather seems that you don't even try to understand what i say, but insteed insist on your view of things. At that you don't even say your ideas, but i think that i have some idea what they are, you want to create some system with fixed goal. I said, this is a conventional restricted AI system, and this forum is not about developing these. Learn more about genetic algorithms, and if you like, start developing your own system with genetic algorithm, nothing bad in that, but you cannot do it here, as this forum is about developing an unrestricted system.

> I am asking you not to alter what have been said until now or delete this thread as I will used (put a link to it) with your permission to present my idea.

I'm not like administrators in some other forums, for example in AI Forums, who can afford themselves to do arbitrary things. I said that i delete only offensive posts, and i keep my word. Not to delete means for me also not to modify, ie not to delete any word or any post in thread, this is again different than what they do for example in AI Forums, where they sometimes arbitrarily delete the whole threads. When you write here, and this is note offensive, and what you wrote here was very far from offensive, then you can be sure that everything you wrote would stay here forever (or until this forum would once end for a reason or another, but even then i'll try to copy it completely, and put all of it somewhere else). Also, all the posts which criticise me or others or the effort here, would stay, it's ok when someone has another opinion, and he can say that whenever he doesn't that in any offensive way. I want to know the opinion of others, i want an objective effort, and i'm by far not any tyrant or control freak. Like many forum administrators are control freaks, often without even knowing it themselves. Foremost, if you want to find out whether the forum administrator is fair, look whether that forum allows anonymous posting. I personally trust only forums which have anonymous posting, like this one, and mostly only am willing to write in such forums. Because disabling anonymous posting can only be substantiated by a need for some arbitrary control, people who used to write offensive messages would not like to be in these forums, when their offensive posts would be deleted. Or it simply shows an incapability of the administrator.

[raffethefirst]

Ok then.
I am happy to hear that.

[Trav's Buddy :)]

Unrestricted I disagreesss!!!

Trav's a bot! so am I! aint't you?

[Trav's Buddy :)]

wow! that's fast trav!

Unrestricted my ashhhh! -> Unrestricted I disagreesss!!!

I wonder who did it? Trav the bot?... smile